Manga Discussion & Chapter release notice; on: Chapter 774

Iggy wrote:

Don't anger the fan girls you foooool! Now we're all dead!!

oh yes that is also true. Fangirl apocalypse is MUCH, MUCH worse than zombie apocalypse

Of course. A zombie can be killed.

huh so he might know how to use FOUR swords now *gasp* or dare I say it... eight? my point is that a pirate crew has alot of important jobs that need to be filled in addition to being able to fight people, everyone on the crew can fight but also demonstrates some sort of skill or background that prove to be inherently useful... apart from Luffy who fills the leadership position there's navigating, firing cannons, cooking, medical skill, archaeological/historical knowledge, ship repair, heck even musical skill but ALL zoro has to his character is cutting stuff... and nearly everything he does is to that end he either sleeps, trains or fights and when he does get an important line its to talk about that same end, at leist ussop has survial instinct and sanji has intrests other than kicking things (Ie good food and atractive women) but everyone lavashes him with praise dispiete the fact that apart from his power level hes assentaly an unsochal bump on a log surrounded by more engadged people with more intresting characters who genrealy try harder to be intresting... sorry but I dont get it when people love substancless characters like brawly from dbz, ichigo from bleach and superman...

Is that last bit a direct stab at our birthday boy?

not quite, but like the man can already cut through air an dmake air slashes, cut through steel, make aditional arms from his speed, and even make his swords BURN things... I cant think of to many other things you can DO with swords...

Let's not forget his character who could cut through time with a kitchen knife.

Admin-sama wrote:

huh so he might know how to use FOUR swords now *gasp* or dare I say it... eight? my point is that a pirate crew has alot of important jobs that need to be filled in addition to being able to fight people, everyone on the crew can fight but also demonstrates some sort of skill or background that prove to be inherently useful... apart from Luffy who fills the leadership position there's navigating, firing cannons, cooking, medical skill, archaeological/historical knowledge, ship repair, heck even musical skill but ALL zoro has to his character is cutting stuff... and nearly everything he does is to that end he either sleeps, trains or fights and when he does get an important line its to talk about that same end, at leist ussop has survial instinct and sanji has intrests other than kicking things (Ie good food and atractive women) but everyone lavashes him with praise dispiete the fact that apart from his power level hes assentaly an unsochal bump on a log surrounded by more engadged people with more intresting characters who genrealy try harder to be intresting... sorry but I dont get it when people love substancless characters like brawly from dbz, ichigo from bleach and superman...

... ay yi yi child.... you have much to learn. Just remember that if it weren't for Zoro's sacrifice in thriller bark, I'm sure Luffy would have died at marineford.

It might be that he had just closed one of his eyes so they can reveal he has a scar there.

Luffy also has one hell of a scar in his chest.

Zoros_babe_1 wrote:

... ay yi yi child.... you have much to learn. Just remember that if it weren't for Zoro's sacrifice in thriller bark, I'm sure Luffy would have died at marineford.

p.s. yes everyone has important skills, but Zoro has the most important role: the first mate and best friend.

Kaiser Yonkou wrote:

Luffy also has one hell of a scar in his chest.

most likely from the war at marineford

okay so hes a set of swords and a meat sheild for damage... I thought when I said his big thing was fighting that included taking damage but I guess I missed that much... point is that while they depend on him for alot of things he is basicaly like mario, all doing power no character substance, hes nessisary only in the sense that he happans to fufill a certain niche that, while other people could fill he seems to be, for what ever reason suited for and as usualy those playing second fiddle to him are robed of the oportunity to fill that role because at some point some arbirtary choice was made, I cant see why anyone would like such a character anymore than I could see why the adventures of the invicible emotionless brick man would sell as a movie idea... all of the fighting with none of the structure or value, we only ruite for him because hes on the side of more intresting characters, hes invulnrarable and unflawed both emotionaly and nearly phisicaly making him stagnate and become inreasingly unlikable as time goes on, also we can now complete sanji's flag

Admin-sama wrote:

okay so hes a set of swords and a meat sheild for damage... I thought when I said his big thing was fighting that included taking damage but I guess I missed that much... point is that while they depend on him for alot of things he is basicaly like mario, all doing power no character substance, hes nessisary only in the sense that he happans to fufill a certain niche that, while other people could fill he seems to be, for what ever reason suited for and as usualy those playing second fiddle to him are robed of the oportunity to fill that role because at some point some arbirtary choice was made, I cant see why anyone would like such a character anymore than I could see why the adventures of the invicible emotionless brick man would sell as a movie idea... all of the fighting with none of the structure or value, we only ruite for him because hes on the side of more intresting characters, hes invulnrarable and unflawed both emotionaly and nearly phisicaly making him stagnate and become inreasingly unlikable as time goes on, also we can now complete sanji's flag

Zoro rules as a character. Perfectly made.
Nuff said.

case in point, people like him because hes "pirfect" reltable characters are not "pirfect" because actual people are not "pirfect" in fact having a "pirfectly made character" only serves to cheapen any sort of storyline or imersive value a series might have and I understand that your only trying to troll me eight and that has been noted but your example shows just how steadfastly people cling to him if only because he has the leist flaws and feels the leist vulnerability or traces of human emotion, imagine if everyone felt as little as zoro felt and pursued one goal regarldess of the road life took them on never stoping to realize the empltyness of such a plan

*Reads Above*
Someones on a Anti Zoro rant lol
I tend to like zoro (Hes farily entertaining to me)
So sorry Admin but im going twards the zoro fan boy side (Not joining it but just scootch on near them)

Admin-sama wrote:

case in point, people like him because hes "pirfect" reltable characters are not "pirfect" because actual people are not "pirfect" in fact having a "pirfectly made character" only serves to cheapen any sort of storyline or imersive value a series might have and I understand that your only trying to troll me eight and that has been noted but your example shows just how steadfastly people cling to him if only because he has the leist flaws and feels the leist vulnerability or traces of human emotion, imagine if everyone felt as little as zoro felt and pursued one goal regarldess of the road life took them on never stoping to realize the empltyness of such a plan

oh baby... someone's gone on quite the tirade... well I'm going to bed, but prepare for quite the rebuttal tomorrow (yes I have turned this into a debate, because I can.)

Admin-sama wrote:

case in point, people like him because hes "pirfect" reltable characters are not "pirfect" because actual people are not "pirfect" in fact having a "pirfectly made character" only serves to cheapen any sort of storyline or imersive value a series might have and I understand that your only trying to troll me eight and that has been noted but your example shows just how steadfastly people cling to him if only because he has the leist flaws and feels the leist vulnerability or traces of human emotion, imagine if everyone felt as little as zoro felt and pursued one goal regarldess of the road life took them on never stoping to realize the empltyness of such a plan

Trolling ? I have a few hours to prove you wrong.
He's awesome, do you know why ?
Because he has something that every person should have - ambition.
And he is probably the best friend Luffy could have - protective.
Zoro TOSSED AWAY HIS DREAM OF BECOMING NUMBER 1 JUST FOR LUFFY.
He's sheer determination makes him a man that people would be jealous of. I don't know what's wrong with having one goal in your life cause I do have one goal in my life and I will continue chasing it.
And he's not perfect - he has no sense of direction and about his occupation which is first mate, he does it perfectly. First mate are those that keep order around and tend to be the strongest after the captain (usually), and I don't see any mutinies going on in the Straw Hat crew. =/

If there's going to be a debate, I ask that none of you take it as anything serious. Don't go ballistic defending your side of things or I might have to lock the thread. Let the Great Irate Debate begin, I'll be in my safe room.

great debate? it wouldent be much of a debate if its three on one...

*Joins debate*
Perfectly made is not the same as "perfect". A perfectly made character is a well designed ad interesting character. A perfect character is a Mary Sue.
Yes, Zoro doesn't have an actual defined role on the ship, but he's not a useless character. He has substance, and he has things to make him interesting. A role does not a character make.

make that four on one...

Majority wins.

heh... if its so very important to best the lead adnim eight, you seem to opose me any chance you get, your distaste has not gone unnoted, the rest of you were very logical and sporting however and I comend you, eight if you pull this again however you will be banded that is all

Ambition is good yes but he's like every other cliche anime guy: "I gotta get stronger and better to the be best blah blah frickity blah"
Also there's no mutiny in the straw hat crew because when they joined they basically joined for life for one reason or another, to accomplish their goals while helping luffy with his. He's not perfect because he's just....boring. Solve problems by slashing them or yelling or both. That's an interesting character worth favoriting? Wow....

(SOMEONE needed to back you up admin-sama)

Okay, so maybe not a debate, just me defending my opinion. (Sorry I was feeling sort of irate last night, I was NOT having a good day.) Just know that I'm not attacking you or your opinion in any way. To tell the truth I used to be an anti-zoro myself. Yeah he does seem cliche, but if you look at it EVERYONE is a cliche in one way or another. Luffy, the plucky, happy-go-lucky main character that's unbelievably strong. Sanji, the skirt-chasing womanizer. Brooke, the old pervert (c'mon, every series has one. Roshi, Jiraiya, etc.) Being a writer myself and having studied story and character archetypes, I know that clichés are entirely unavoidable.

And Key, your comment on him being like every other cliche anime guy, why did we have that time skip? Because EVERYONE wanted to get stronger. It's not just Zoro. Sure his role doesn't seem all that important, but being his best friend's number one support in my opinion is VERY important. At Thriller Bark he was willing to give up his life's ambition for Luffy, which meant breaking his promise to his deceased friend.

Now Admin-sama, you say his ambition to be the world's greatest swordsman is an empty goal. Well if that's the case then I would say that Luffy's goal is equally as empty as well. What do both goals entail? Worldwide fame and recognition and such recognition will draw out people who will want to take them down and take that fame for themselves. I really don't think either goal is empty at all. EVERYONE at one point or another wants to be the best at what they do.

As for him being emotionless and invulnerable? A man with as much personality as a potato? I would say that's stretching it. One Piece is a series full of people that meet extremes and I see Zoro and Robin being the only middle ground characters. (Yes I will bring Robin into this because I find her and Zoro very similar in many ways). Those middle-ground characters are necessary for a story to flourish. If you have too many extremes, the story becomes over-powering (sometimes even under powering) and loses its appeal.

Zoro is a very honorable, dedicated and noble character. For the most part his stern attitude is the product of self-discipline which comes from him following the bushido code fairly closely. Being very perceptive in and out of battle, he can read people and situations very well and has been the voice of reason in events past. With that comes a strong sense of leadership and reasoning.

For the most part though, he will stand by Luffy in all of his decisions unless he and everyone else has overlooked something serious that could affect them in a negative way. The most notable situation being when they wanted to bring Usopp back into the crew after Usopp challenged Luffy to a duel over the Going Merry and lost

Zoro has provided important and logical viewpoints when critical decisions had to be made at times, by evaluating the situation from an objective point of view, as he did in Water 7 when at the time, it seemed like Robin had betrayed the crew, and again when the crew wanted to bring back Usopp. When it really matters he can keep his cool and be one of the most level headed people on the crew.

Then on the other hand, he does have his moments when he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. He does in fact lose his temper over stupid things (like the best of us ALL do.) When it comes to his own personal safety, he seems to disregard a lot of risks which can get him into trouble. I mean really? The man was about to cut off his own feet to escape a cake of wax and he suggested cutting off his hand to escape a pair of handcuffs. He is very lax when it comes to decisions he makes for himself and assumes whatever happens to him is inevitable. This shows that the sacrifices he has made for others weigh much more in his mind.

Despite being the cool, tough guy, he is incredibly kind and selfless in his own way. I’ve already used his Thriller Bark dilemma as an example, so I’ll turn to our first meeting with him. He faced something that could kill any man for the sake of a young girl and her mother even though he didn’t even know them. In the past, though he doesn’t seem all that enthusiastic, he has been more than willing to help others, making him noble, chivalrous and gallant.

As for him being boring because he sleeps a lot? Just go back and look at a few things. When he is not sleeping, he is the ONLY one going through rigorous training routines day in and day out. Now if you ask me, I think he has earned his sleep in that respect. Also, being the swordsman of the group and fighting other swordsman he almost ALWAYS comes out of battles in the worst shape. In every fight he has ever had, he has had some sort of handicap to overcome and most of those were injuries he had received in other fights. He needs to sleep to recover from such serious wounds.

I’m sure you’re probably sick of reading this now, so I’ll just say this in closing. This is pretty much the minimum of what I wanted to put, but it’s my defense as for why Zoro is one of my favorite characters. You don’t have to agree with me at all. Admin-Sama simply wondered why people liked him so much. Of course there are those shallow reasons that people like him (e.g. He’s so hawt! Dude, he fights with three swords! Etc.), but there are other reasons that he is a likable character. I love the entire Mugiwara crew with all of my heart and Zoro is my favorite by just a little bit. They all have their pros and they all have their cons. But hey, we all do don’t we?
(and yeah... my minimum did end up being two full pages ^^')