Hybrid Zoans

Sometimes in nature, we have hybrids form. Hybrids are animals that are born from two different genuses, but are in the same family, of animal. Examples of such creatures occur naturally in nature, but are very rare and go for periods of pseudo-extinction. As a result, I have an idea of how to incorporate such animals, since they shouldn't be denied as they are real. All hybrid zoans on site should be treated as one of the following in my opinion:

Main Section
An Ancient Zoan

Due to their constant endangerment and mock-extinction, they could be classified as ancient zoans as often they are extinct. I would recommend that no monster form be allowed. think with me here: anaconda python hybrid. Has occurred before. They are huge. A monster pythaconda would probably be a 50 ton snake the size of the average giant, and their full form would be half the size of a wotan. This hybrid would be powerful, so having a monster form seems overkill.


or a Mythical Zoan.

Some hybrids people want to create, though possible, will not occur and have not occurred naturally in nature, whether it be by chance or environment. Most hybrids are rare anyway, and are myths during periods of extinction. Similar to how hobbits are now known to have existed, a hobbit is still a myth just like how hybrid animals are. So this would not allow hybrid forms obviously, meaning that the already hybrid zoan would still be unable to also be a man hybrid.

Advanced Section
In the advanced section, we can simply add a page to the zoan system that gives hybrid zoans the costs of mythical zoans, but the stats of ancient zoans. Considering some hybrids would be potentially stronger than ancient zoans ability-wise, this makes sense to me... also in that a fruit for a hybrid zoan would likely be just as rare or rarer than a mythical zoan.



I don't think we should flat-out deny the concept as ligers, donkies, and other hybrids occur naturally and several man-made. Because they exist more than mythical beings, why should we deny them? We merely need to make it fair to non-hybrid zoans and these are my suggestions.

So what are your thoughts? What are your issues with this? How can we make this happen? I don't think it would be fair to deny a donkey zoan because it is a hybrid.

I think this sounds like a pretty good may of fitting in hybrid animal zoans  Good thinking Aidoneus

I am against hybrid animals that don't exist in real life because people are always trying to make strongest thing out there.  At some point it just because unpractical and over powered.  Whatever Zoan type are use that and role play to the best of your ability.

But please tell me more. Cause right now im picturing people making bears mixed with dragons. Or monkey mixed with a lion. Is that correct?

Mythical Zoans already can display paramecia, zoan, and logia abilities.  Why should they get a monster form.  Imagine and monster Dragon, Phoenix, or manticore, Chopper who just a deer and human was already extremely powerful now imagine those mythical zoans taking on that form.  Same for ancient. They already physically stronger than regular zoans.

In the main section specifically

I think hybrid mythical Zoans should be allowed.  What the point of a zoan if you if you can't fight in hybrid form.  Paramecia get full access to the crazy range of abilities and even though logias can't transform that is not really hindering them. Being able to be 1/2 human half animal is not such huge power that it should not be allowed

@Aidoneous I dont like the idea of hybrids being allowed in the site... nothing as pythacondas or such. Okay well, we've seen stuff like Ligers or Mules... but none of those happen in nature, as Zalton mentioned. They are human induced. Furthermore, users already have the possibility of using SIQ to enhance their forms.

@Zalton, we dont have mythical zoan hybrids because remember that the hybrid points of zoans usually enhance the physical capabilities of a character. So in that case, imagine a guy n it's hybrid manticore point with increased fighting capabilities such as agility and strenght and still be able to use his venom and fly while using his human abilities...

Rodo, mules do occur naturally in rare occasions, as do ligers. Further, there are other examples found in nature such as wolf-dogs and pizzlies, which have been proven to occur naturally on rare occasions as well, the latter having never been bred in captivity to my memory. The ones that DO occur in nature like this should be allowed is my opinion, because they do occur sometimes. One's that don't are either hypothetical or man induced, both of which would fall under the mythical zoan category or denied. If I want to make a pizzly zoan, I don't want to be denied under the premise that they don't occur in nature when they clearly do (I have actually considered doing this, hence this thread).

If it man made then its not natural. Not even Oda has done zoans based on the animals he has created. But other than you has someone tried to make and had it rejected? I ask that out of simple curiosity.

@Rodo I see no problem with that. Human abilities being what they use their weapon they can do that already. Using a dragon example its transformation can be to large for indoor usage. And mostly the conveniences are related to size, depending on the zoan the use of hands, and walking upright,

Manticores gain those abilities whether or not they become hybrid. The only difference would be being able to walk. Venom from maticore I see is only the snake tail biting them.

Regular and ancient zoans still get those beinifts of increased stats, flying, and venom. Although with all types of zoans you don't always get stat increase like the various birds and most insects.

Zalton, you have stated the obvious. I never said man-made things were natural (even though technically speaking they are as there is no genetic engineering involved, just like how domesticated animals do not occur naturally but are considered natural). I said pizzlies, mules, ligers, and wolf-dog mixes are natural. Pizzlies and mules have been known to occur in nature, as have wolf-dogs. Ligers are not known for fact to be formed in nature currently, but persian reports have instances of tigons and ligers being formed outside of captivity. This is why I would like to classify hybrids as ancient zoans. They are rare when occuring naturally, and thereby endangered, and ones that once occured naturally are naturally extinct officially. It makes sense for natural hybrids to be classified as ancient zoans.

If we include hybrid zoans of man-made hybrids that cannot occur naturally, like the pythoconda or a black belcher mamba, then assuming we could approve it I would classify it as a mythological zoan, as they are myths to nature... But I wouldn't approve a black belcher mamba no matter much limits it has, seing as how you would have nearly instant poison potent enough to kill millions from the amount of a single bite. Man-made hybrids are a scetchy, and thereby difficult, topic in relation to approval. But natural ones should be allowed.

I stated obvious so that it would be obvious and clear.

One thing that separates ancient from regular is increased strength, so for in one piece because they are dinosaurs they are stronger then animals we have today.  A wolf dog, donkeys, and mules are weaker than part of than one of the animals that make them up others are seemingly equal physically.  Rarity and or being extinct doesn't make them Ancient Zoan material.  They might have traits that might make them improved in some way but not in the same league as dinosaurs, the only ancient we have seen.

And there is no reason why a general consensus needs to be made.  You can reject some and allow others.  Like you said there is nothing wrong with a donkey but that black belcher mamba is over powered.

Well, wolf-dogs are not weaker than both for one; pizzlies are known to be slightly stronger as well. Keep in mind for ancient zoans we also have the archaeopteryx, not stronger than normal birds, and a saber-tooth tiger, stronger, but really it is basically a bear; furthermore, a good portion of dinosaurs aren't strong, but are agile or fast. Ancient zoan material is determined by whether or not the animal is extinct, hence why it is ancient.

Extinct =/= Ancient

I want you to keep that in mind. IMO a Dodo wouldnt clasify as an Ancient Zoan, neither would a Golden Toad.

On the matters of discussion of the Mythical Zoans and hybrid points, how a size might become impractical for a user is what regulates them from using their abilities in more detructive forms than they can in only their full form.

I think it would make sense to say Ancient zoans have to be extinct and old for them to be considered that. I doubt a roach would be considered an ancient zoan any more then my dead grandpa. That's all I read in this thread so that's all I'll comment on till now.

I don't see why any living hybrids would be anything but a regular zoan. Also I don't see any reason whatsoever to deny a hybrid such as a pizzly. It's just a cross between two extremely similar animals with a few unimportant characteristics.

but now take into account more rare hybrids. Ligers can only be bred in captivity now, but evidence suggests, though historians say not conclusively as reports and fact are apparently different despite that all "historical facts" are either speculations supported by scientific evidence or reports from credible sources, that the Persians came across wild Ligers. These reports came from the mid-late time of the persian empire back when it was actually still the Persian empire. Quite a long time ago, I believe well over 2000 years, I know over 1000. The last woolly mammoths are said to have died less than 4000 years ago, and some report even closer to now with occasional reports, and even this whole siberian live mammoth video thing. Based on this, if I wanted to make a liger zoan it would be classified as ancient, would it not? It would not be a "it is bred in captivity so no" issue, it would be IMO a "they stopped occurring naturally well over 2000 years ago" issue.

This example as given above is why I want to get this out of the way. There are cases where hybrids occur naturally, but there are cases where they once occurred naturally. If the occurred naturally in the past but do not now, would that not make them extinct as a whole? Ligers were reported in persia as being born of asiatic lions and caspian tigers, both of which had similar breeding areas and both of which are now extinct. Because of their extinction, the only possible naturally occurring liger has subsequently become extinct; however, zoans aren't categorized by subspecies, except in the case of dogs. Why would I make a caspian tiger ancient zoan when the normal tiger is just as good? I can't do that with the liger. If I want a naturally occurring liger, I HAVE to have an Asiatic-Caspian Liger or else it is not naturally occurring. It does not occur naturally anymore, and so it couldn't be a normal zoan. Would this not make it an ancient zoan?

You want classify as ancient because its old? But it isn't extinct whether they are occurring naturally or in the laboratory they still are in existence. There are many "ancient" species still around.  And because they were rare to begin with people don't know they stopped occurring naturally.  It could very well be that because tiger are endangered that they don't have the opportunity to breed with lions. Or its because they are becoming extinct they might breed with lions.  But they are not extinct so even though the species is old the animals around just like regular zoans.

And regardless of all that it boils down to the following: Are stat increases warranted and desired for these hybrids?

My opinion is no because they are so close to the originals and because they are for the most part still around. The moment it does become extinct doesn't put it in the category of Ancient Zoans either.

Male lions grow up to 10 feet (3 meters) in length and usually weigh around 330 to 550 pounds (150 to 250 kilograms), while female lions are smaller, growing up to 9 feet (2.7 m) in length and weighing between 265 to 395 pounds (120 to 180 kg), according to the National Zoo. A lion's tail adds another 2 to 3 feet to their length (0.6 to 1 m). Adult lions stand about 3.5 to 4 feet high at their shoulders. (Asiatic lions are slightly smaller than African lions) - Lions are the second largest of the big cats, after the tiger. A lion's roar can be heard up to 5 miles (8 kilometers) away, according to the National Zoo. A male lion's mane protects it when it fights. At short distances, lions can run 50 mph (80 kph). They can jump as far as about 36 feet (11 m).

Despite not being strongly adapted to the dark, tigers’ night vision is about six times better than humans’. Tigers are the largest of all cats (ie. The siberian tiger, grows to over 3.5m long with a mass of over 300k.) Tigers can sprint at over 60km/h for short distances. Tigers can leap distances of over 6m, and jump up to 5m vertically. Their muscular legs are so powerful that they can remain standing even when dead. Tigers have been known to imitate the call of other animals to successfully attract prey. Bears make up a part of the diet of many tigers, due to overlapping habitats. Sometimes tigers will imitate the sound of a bear’s prey to lure unsuspecting bears towards them. Although they favor killing using their 10cm teeth, tigers will sometimes use their paws. One swipe from a tiger’s front paw is strong enough to smash a bear’s skull or break its back. Tigers can bite through bones with their powerful teeth and jaws. They will break the neck vertebrae of prey simply by biting straight through them. Tigers have antiseptic saliva. They lick their wounds to disinfect them.

Because of Hybrid Vigor, ligers are strong. They tend to be free from disease and have the very best traits of lions and tigers. Ligers have been reported to run as fast as 60m (above 100kph) an hour, and are proven to go over 60kph. Ligers are heavier than either parent, or any cat ever, at 330kg cap. Ligers are stronger than either parent, and etc etc. A liger is not "so close to the parents it is normal". It is stronger than the parents in every way, except that perhaps their size makes them an easier target for humans.


So in conclusion, using the liger example, Ligers have factual stat increase above tigers and lions, and even more than smilodons (which I'm pretty sure I've seen somewhere on site as an ancient zoan). With a liger being stronger, faster, and larger than a smilodon, why would ligers be classified as weaker? A liger would be naturally stronger and thereby WOULD warrant a stat increase. Such cases are rare, but possible hence my intense arguing.