Apologies from beyond the horizon o_0

Well well well, look what we have here, santa must be early this year.


To be quite honest, I am neutral on this matter, and this letter has been written by a member of the, so called, 'copy site'.
Since she does not own a account, I am acting here as the messenger.
And well.. hurting the messenger would be madness.. right?

Madness? I want to kick you into an endless pit just for that.

To be quite honest on the matter of that site, we've heard people aren't saying the recruitment has been very civil (more along the lines of harassment) and the fact that it has been done covertly is very suspicious. Copying elements of this site and then inviting users to come from this site to the site that has plagiarized structure isn't something a simple apology can fix, because it's disrespectful and its the kind of thing that one would blatantly know is wrong while doing it. The comment that the other site had no intention of harming this site is fine and dandy, but the head administrator did something they know is blatantly against the rules of this forum (advertising their own forum without the permission of the administration staff*, harassing users to leave this site. These actions are blatantly offensive as the administrator responsible for these actions has been involved in reporting other users who were advertising without permission.)

The site's moderation has nothing against users who have been going to the other site, though we find the recruitment policies and lack of originality in the site design to be very disappointing. The head administrator of that site has lost respect from the moderators and some users here for his actions, and most likely will not be allowed to stay here as he has been a detriment to the community while pretending to be a valuable user.

EDIT: This apology would mean a lot more if the user who wrote it knew the situation, I appreciate the sentiment, but an uneducated opinion doesn't provide the kind of wisdom that elucidates upon any ambiguity this situation has.

*The administration staff has been known to support other sites as affiliates if they ask and are approved.

Bah, I'm glad all of this bull-crap is done with. I mean really an apology with your fangs barred is nothing but empty words.

guys... come on I mean, I get that were mad but what happaned to them isnt something Id wish on anyone, Im sorry for their loss really, Ive had co-admins delete my naruto sites before, it really sucks

**PLEASE EVERYONE TAKE YOUR TIME TO READ THIS**

Okay now since i received this email today "Dear members of Rise & Fall

This is Administrator of Rise & Fall

As you may have realised by now that the entire site has vanished and this is due to the childish trolling of the rttgl users. I am very sorry for any inconvenience but I will be re-building the site from scratch again for everybody to use again. But I am very sorry to say you will have to create your characters, devil fruits, weapons and more all over again. I am very sorry about this and I will try and get things up and running again as soon as possible."

I hope you are proud over what you have done Jimmy Rustler and you others that have trolled, you have destroyed a site that had all those friendly users and good mods that are required of a site to have to function properly.

But of course we can get that you guys are angry but please just please don't do this to other sites that may pop up in the future. Our friendly perfectly good rpers started feeling bad and doubting their ability to do what they were clearly good at. Your insulting messages started becoming cyber bullying and just pure harassment. "Madness? I want to kick you into an endless pit just for that. " <<< Hell, that is a form of Harassment and cyber bullying, you should never threaten a user for something that they clearly had nothing to do with.

"This apology would mean a lot more if the user who wrote it knew the situation, I appreciate the sentiment, but an uneducated opinion doesn't provide the kind of wisdom that elucidates upon any ambiguity this situation has." Oh i'm sorry but you are quite wrong my dear, i was a mod on that site and i knew all too well what was going on, i had been there from the start of the site so i knew when this all started as well, i have also been following this site for quite a while, you can see me as that wallflower that never really says anything until i feel it's needed. And seeing your post in this thread it's not me that come across as uneducated on this matter, it is you.

Now let me go in on another point, we never ever asked users to leave this site we would never even as much as think of it, now you will probably don't trust me and think that i am lying just to defend antler and that site that is now destroyed because of the harassment and spamming from some very bad people that i reckon to be from this site. Now i'm not saying that this site is bad in any way, oh no, almost all users seem to be lovely people however there are always the ones who feel they have the need to do something bad to get their point across.

And you are actually right Jimmy Rustler, a simple apology can't fix anything, you need maturity and effort from both sides in an argument to finally have peace. Which quite amuses me because if you wanted our site to be better and "more original" then you could have sent a email to the head administrator or any of the admins and we would have taken it into consideration. However as some people decided that being mature and civilized about this that site is now back to where it all started.

I have no idea if i will get banned from this site for writing this and what do i know? This message might get deleted and no one will see it but i know that i at least tried.

And if you don't mind i shall end this post with a suggestion, since this is a new start i suggest starting it with peace, and my suggestion is an affiliation between these two sites, let's be nakama and not enemies. Now that is all i had to say for now. Thank you for your time if you read this, i really appreciate it ^^

Yay guys, thanks a billion for taking down a whole site that many people loved just because you had a problem with one person.

My (un)sincerest thanks,

Lone (Just another one of those evil and terrible people that you all seem to hate )

It seems lone sarcasm is the perfect example if the immaturity you both, rttgl, and Rise and fall share. Lone, do you really think posting this will make the situation any better.. Looking at the situations both sides have actually quite valid arguments, however having seen the site first hand, nothing much has been lost. Many, if not all of the DF´s were copy pasted, a pure disgrace, not to forget much quality wasn´t there. But of course quality could be fixed..

Removing the site might just have been the best option.. start something original for once.

Now youri, don't come here and be like that, and Lone you should cut it off too, you are not making the situation any better.

That site was original in it's ways. And it's not the sites looks or the things on it that make a good quality site and it's not the things on it that makes it a disgrace, it's the users and how they act. And i hope you can take this and please read this through without getting upset but some of our users actually said that some people on this site were mean and sometimes even corrupted, they really did, and it was later proved and now that i'm here i can also clearly see it.

BUT if we all can mature and man up then we could not go through this shit ever again, it is unpleasant and doesn't make anything better.

Let's make peace and not insults guys, this pointless arguing is not making anything better.

I'm sorry for my earlier post but since the whole thing began, I have neither made snide remarks or outbursts that both sides have shown to do. I had to stay neutral while I was negotiating the whole thing but now that's it over I just let myself vent my stress over the loss of a site design which I personally made from scratch. (granted it didn't look great XD but I did spend countless hours working on that and to see that gone is not something I could take on the chin)

So, sorry about that outburst I had. I had only just learnt of our site's fate, I'm sure you would understand

Lone

Well, I didn't know Rise and Fall before, and didn't about this "war" until today. However, after having what I believe is the full story explained to me, I can't help but agree that the methods that were taken against Rise and Fall were extreme and uncalled for, but that is not my place to judge.

I will say this though: As long as you have a site that you like, everything is fine and dandy, and no one can judge it over its originality. However, I understand that some applications from this site have been simply carbon copied to the other, which is just bordering plagiarism. Taking credit for an idea that is not yours is wrong and even bound by law, and you can't act surprised when the person you did this to ends up being hurt. Even though you believe your site was just harmless fun, people don't enjoy getting their ideas stolen, and that's what really bothers me. Again, this does not justify what was done to your site, but it is a valid point to consider.

In regards to the site advertisement via Private Messages, I really don't see anything wrong with it since no one was forced to join or switch sides, and it was done privately. I'm not sure if advertisement through Private Messages is allowed by site rules or not, but I still believe that a warning would have been as effective.

Now, seeing as the damage was already dealt and explanations and excuses were already handed out, I kindly suggest we just drop this topic and allow people to focus on their favorite site from now on.

I want to say my comment about kicking into a pit was a reference to the movie 300, where a messenger says it would be madness to kill the messenger, and then the king of sparta kicks him into a pit. I'm sorry you've not seen that movie "administrator", but saying that was cyber-bullying is quite frankly slander.

Let's move on, this is done.

I don't really want to add more fuel for hatred, but indeed, that was an intended reference. I don't think it is much different on the other site right? You have to consider you're not the only community who is close-knit. And the fact you would accuse him because of something like that annoys me till no end.

I think this whole thing is done, Antler is banned and shouldn't be able to copy and paste everything like he had before. Therefor his new site should be more original as long as the rest of his members have a little more integrity than he did when he started that site out.

Bubbunny, I'll talk to the administration and make sure you're not banned, you've done nothing wrong as of yet.

Lone I know you're mad, but this gives the site a chance to start over; make a clean start. You are an admin on that site, so please keep it original, don't copy thing from other sites. I know very well how hard and how much time it takes to write sheets, but it's still the best way.

Sleepy, you obviously don't know the whole story. There are inconsistencies in what you said. I know for a fact members were harassed by the head of that site if they didn't quit rttgl. This information came from their members directly.

I think we can agree that both sides have done some bad things. We have two options, get over it or keep fighting and bitching about it. I for one want to forget about it, that is why I didn't post what I wanted to. Now if I can calm down and shut my mouth why can't you?

honestly, look, heres what needs to happen now, you guys should iron out your own rules and sheets ect, completely separate from ours, that way my people will back off, your people will finally have something 100% theres and we can all go our separate ways since we are apparently to angry to get along in any other way shape or form, as unfortunate as a "I dont like you and you dont like me but" speech is that might be what things have come down to, however, dont assume that any member solely on this site had anything to do with what happened, if your rules and character sheets can be rebuilt by yourself, no basis from myself or anyone else, than we could all go our separate ways and have that be that. This is not necessarily what I would have wanted, but if its come to getting things settled that way then so be it. We have only three points of intrest:
1. That the new set of rules and sheets bear no basis or direct resemblance of our own in any way, and similarly that of our policies, gaudiness and other intellectual property
2. That your people refrain from their covert coalescing and siphoning members and activity from our community, be it privately or publicly for the direct or indirect benefit of their forums' members and activity in any way with or with out decrement to our own
3. Individuals who have performed either of the two above actions be removed from this forum, so as to prevent them from taking further intelectual property and users from the forum, shared users will be put on notice for any future cases of these infractions and are advised to keep actions and interactions between or relating between the two forums separate

in return for these agreements we offer the following:
1. The rules, sheets, policies, guidelines, and other intelectual property you create from this new generation will never be used or replicated in any way shape of form here (as it has never before been)
2. A non-agression agreement based off any interaction between our two forums, be it actions from staff or individual users to be handled in the form of radio silence unless these agreements become breached or broken in some way
3. We will continue not to actively remove members from your forum and put them on our forum for any content, user-counts or other form of benefit regardless of weather or not it proves decremental to your forum

if we agree to this I dont see why we cant leave each-other the heck alone, at the very least... which is less than what we should be doing, but after you come here and insult my forum and users after stealing from it perhaps its for the best, since you dont seem to be willing to co-operate or collaborate much, and are all overly hostile to my forum for something your staff member did to all of you, its not like any of us here could have done that, think logically for a moment and consider what Ive said